Glasswolf said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well the transcript of the convo with Ukraine does it for me. I'm all in on impeachment now!(not really) As someone who didn't vote for Trump, I almost hope he is re-elected in 2020 just to watch the liberals and media completely lose whatever brains they have left. It's really sad to see.

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Really?

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Yes really. To see people like yourself and many others absolutely haring someone just because you don't like his politics or the way he acts or because the dear Clinton wasn't elected is funny to me. Never in my life have I seen so many people all pissed off and bent our of shape over a president. Never have I seen so many people and media trying to find any little, non important thing they can to throw at the wall and hope it sticks. Hell, at this point, I hope he wins in a landslide just so I can sit back and watch heads explode. It's downright pathetic the way this is going. Love him or hate him, he is the president. You want him out? Beat him. Don't try to take a crooked or cheap way and impeach him. Just beat him. When he actually does something that is a high crime or misdemeanor, then he will be impeached. Until then, get over it. It amazes me how the party of acceptance and love has so much hate and "I didn't get my way, I'm gonna through a temper tantram in them".

I'm not arguing that Trump isn't shady, or that he repeatedly engages in conduct that is beneath his office. He's slimey and is taking advantage of his office.
But is it impeachable? I really don't know. I'm not a lawyer and when I watch debates between experts I can see both sides. That doesn't excuse Trump's behavior though.

Honest question here Glass. What food products have you seen go up in the grocery store since tariffs have been put into place?

What is impeachable if that isn't, I guess that's my question? Just because Trump has already pushed the red line 100 miles past where it probably should be, doesn't mean there never is a line. I think if people aren't shocked at this conduct then they won't be shocked at any of his conduct.

That's their prerogative for sure. Maybe people think he's too dumb to know what he's doing is wrong. Maybe people think because he's always done this in business it excuses it. I personally don't and assume all hell would be breaking out if Obama or Hillary had pushed on a foreign government to investigate a Bush daughter or something like that.

Y'all need to call your Dems in the house because they don't see an impeachable act yet or they would have already voted to impeach him. Facts are simple. Trump is an ass, he is a liar, he is arrogant, he is a lot of not so enjoyable things. So are every other politician known to man. He has NOT commited an impeachable act as of yet in the eyes of the house Dems so u took he actually does, I guess the ones wanting him gone better hope for a good candidate in November 2020. Didn't vote for the dude in 2016 but damn if I ain't close to voting for him in 2020 just for spite of the crap that gets thrown all over the place

Glasswolf said:

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Obama and the Tan suit scandal




Obama and Trump and North Korea




Obama and the selfie stick scandal

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And exactly what does this have to do with trump and what he has or hasn't done to be impeached? Or is this just another way to throw stuff at a wall in order to avoid admitting that as of yet, contrary to some on here's beliefs, he hasn't done anything that goes to the level of impeachment? If he had, ole Nancy and the squad would have already had the vote. I will hang up and listen now. Thanks

Glasswolf said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Glasswolf said:

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Obama and the Tan suit scandal




Obama and Trump and North Korea




Obama and the selfie stick scandal

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And exactly what does this have to do with trump and what he has or hasn't done to be impeached? Or is this just another way to throw stuff at a wall in order to avoid admitting that as of yet, contrary to some on here's beliefs, he hasn't done anything that goes to the level of impeachment? If he had, ole Nancy and the squad would have already had the vote. I will hang up and listen now. Thanks

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If you don't see it you never will. Just stay in Canada and enjoy life

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Man, you can throw that all you want to. I'm asking you to show me, not your opinion, not your personal views, not any of that, but actually show what he HAS done that is high crimes and misdemeanors. You can't and as of right now, neither can your party. Which is why they are where they are now. Again, as I've stated multiple times, if he DOES actually commit a high crime or misdemeanor, I will be the first to call for impeachment.

At the same time, if the argument is a phone call with the Ukranian president, Obama should have been impeached for his "didn't know the micc was hot" comment about telling Putin to wait until after the election so he could do more. At the same time, Biden shouldn't even be allowed to run for office with what he actually admitted on camera. The problem is at this time, that if you don't like someone they should be fired(impeached) and there is no middle ground with it. It has gotten so nasty with the right and left that it won't stop. It's pretty simple. If he did something that is impeachable, they would have already taken the vote. They haven't and he hasn't, YET.

Glasswolf said:

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The 2 sides of Lindsey Graham


https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/25/lindsey-graham-impeachment-before-after-ebof-vpx.cnn

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And this involves trump impeachment how?

Glasswolf said:

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I'll list them again. By tomorrow I'm sure the list will grow. Now there is news floating that another whistleblower has gone directly to congress with allegations that he is using his power as President over the IRS to stop the audit of his tax returns. Not releasing his returns but the audit of his returns

Since 1977 the Internal Revenue Manual has required that every tax return filed by a sitting president or vice president be subject to an audit. According to IRS officials at the time, the new policy was established "in the interest of sound administration" and in light of "everything that has happened in the past."


I'm not even listing the stuff regarding the russia investigation......

• The Constitution's Foreign Emoluments Clause prohibits the president from accepting personal benefits from any foreign government or official.
• Trump has retained his ownership interests in his family business while he is in office.
• Thus, every time a foreign official stays at a Trump hotel, or a foreign government approves a new Trump Organization project, or grants a trademark, Trump is in violation of the Constitution.
  
  • For example: shortly after he was sworn into office, the Chinese government
    gave preliminary approval to 38 trademarks of Trump's name. Then, in June, China approved nine Donald Trump trademarks they had previously rejected.
• And every time he goes to golf at a Trump property, he funnels taxpayer money into his family business violating the Domestic Emoluments Clause.

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According to reports, he gave up those to his kids. As for another whistleblower. Hope it's as major breaking news as the last one. That Ukraine convo was a killer for sure.

Giving up control to his kids does satisfy things. People said it was an issue when it was announced and it still is.
As for high crimes and misdemeanors, most constitutional scholars don't think these have to be things already legally defined as crimes. There is a lot of grey area and that's why lawyers get to argue on cable news for hours on end.

IseWolf22 said:

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Giving up control to his kids does satisfy things. People said it was an issue when it was announced and it still is.
As for high crimes and misdemeanors, most constitutional scholars don't think these have to be things already legally defined as crimes. There is a lot of grey area and that's why lawyers get to argue on cable news for hours on end.

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Agree with you. Not sure if you meant does satisfy or doesn't satisfy in your first sentence. Regardless, he hasn't done anything that is so bad that the left is ready to vote on impeachment so therefore, he hasn't done anything YET. Now, I fully and completely believe he very well could. Dude is about as arrogant as they come but until he does, I will continue to call this impeachment crap just that, crap. Just as I would call it crap if it were happening to a democrat president. No matter how I feel about a president, it doesn't mean that president should be removed or attempted to he removed because I got my panties in a bunch because I didn't get the president I wanted.

Glasswolf said:

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Denverpacker said:

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Glasswolf said:

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Denverpacker said:

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Glasswolf said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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It really doesn't move the needle for me one way or another. The Democrats have been screaming for impeachment since election day 2016.

I do believe that is is political and i don't think that he has done anything outside of anything that any other president has done. It doesn't matter if he did anything wrong or not. I do think its going to help him electorally next year.

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The man is a liar and is treating the US like his businesses. He will try to bankrupt the country and walk away. He has zero clue what he's doing.

That being said every member of the congress can vote to impeach. #MoscowMitch will never allow the Senate to vote to impeach

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How and why will he try to bankrupt the country? I do not have my TDS translator book handy right now

Seems to me our economy is pretty damn strong.

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You don't go to the grocery store often do you? I go every week. Food prices are crazy. Every supplier of raw materials have raised prices by 18-20% in my industry because of the "tariffs" that the Supreme Leader says China is paying for. NC is loosing $80 Million dollars from it's military to build a wall that Trump said Mexico was going to pay for.

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That is such a load of TDS driven BS. I am more in tune with grocery prices than most on here. I have not seen any significant changes. In fact, as soon as hurricane season is over for us down here, we will restock the freezers since prices are so good

Now to the OP's point, what exactly does your crowd consider impeachable here? I have not seen a damn thing.

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I go to the grocery store multiple times a week. I do ALL of my families grocery shopping and the cooking. Prices have gone way up in Raleigh..WAY UP. And I've been doing it for over 25 year. It's not like I started last year.

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Good for you. Grocery prices are not remotely WAY UP. Not even close.

Prices are a bit more in Raleigh, but not much. I have noticed that when I shop there. I attribute that to supply and demand as Raleigh's growth has gone crazy. (I would not want to live there now)

To try and say Trump has riven grocery prices way up is just such a load of TDS horsecrap.

I go to the grocery store more than anyone on this entire board.

I live in a grocery store.

I don't think the Ukraine thing is even the worst thing he has done, but it is the first instance of the President being directly involved and not 'someone close to the President'.

• He dangled military aid to Ukraine... a foreign country (to be used to fight off the Russians) in exchange for digging up dirt on his soon to be political appointment.
• Before this, he fired the ambassador to Ukraine who was looking into corruption in the Ukrainian government and got her out of the way. To add insult, she could have been reassigned and retired in 2 months but he chose to fire her to add injury to the insult.
• So basically there is proof he enlisted a foreign power to meddle into 2020 US elections (sound familiar?.. of course the difference this time is the president is proven to be directly involved..he admitted it and the documents confirm it).
• In addition, he put the foreign power in touch with the Attorney General (not sure why, but okay) and his personal attorney, Giuliani who should not be involved with government business at any level. By using Giuliani, he essentially connects the reelection campaign to this.
• Finally, there was a conspiracy to cover it all up and documents (now released) were hidden on a more secure server where things like this are not housed. Many people were involved in this and this is a crime and a violation of the constitution.

Just this incident alone is the biggest thing in my lifetime... bigger than Watergate and Clintongate. He may be impeached in the house... assuming it goes to the Senate for removal, it would be interesting what the republican do... are they tired of having to explain everything the President does. Republicans may have to bow to him now, but if 2/3rds of the Senate voted for it he would be removed from office and the stain on Trump would be removed forever. Trump has people that will line up behind him, but not many are true friends. He needs as many friends as he can find.

burnbarn said:

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I don't think the Ukraine thing is even the worst thing he has done, but it is the first instance of the President being directly involved and not 'someone close to the President'.

• He dangled military aid to Ukraine... a foreign country (to be used to fight off the Russians) in exchange for digging up dirt on his soon to be political appointment.
• Before this, he fired the ambassador to Ukraine who was looking into corruption in the Ukrainian government and got her out of the way. To add insult, she could have been reassigned and retired in 2 months but he chose to fire her to add injury to the insult.
• So basically there is proof he enlisted a foreign power to meddle into 2020 US elections (sound familiar?.. of course the difference this time is the president is proven to be directly involved..he admitted it and the documents confirm it).
• In addition, he put the foreign power in touch with the Attorney General (not sure why, but okay) and his personal attorney, Giuliani who should not be involved with government business at any level. By using Giuliani, he essentially connects the reelection campaign to this.
• Finally, there was a conspiracy to cover it all up and documents (now released) were hidden on a more secure server where things like this are not housed. Many people were involved in this and this is a crime and a violation of the constitution.

Just this incident alone is the biggest thing in my lifetime... bigger than Watergate and Clintongate. He may be impeached in the house... assuming it goes to the Senate for removal, it would be interesting what the republican do... are they tired of having to explain everything the President does. Republicans may have to bow to him now, but if 2/3rds of the Senate voted for it he would be removed from office and the stain on Trump would be removed forever. Trump has people that will line up behind him, but not many are true friends. He needs as many friends as he can find.

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Asking a serious question. The transcript I read didn't mention aid or dangling it out there for digging up dirt. Is there another transcript out there between trump and the Ukraine president that does? If so, I want to see it because that would change things.

Honestly I am not sure where it is. I do recall back when this was going on, that the administration had postponed sending the $400M in military aid. I thought at the time, that this was unusual as congress had approved the package and I knew the Ukrainians are working to get the Russians and corrupt Russian influences out of the country and by delaying this aid, that was not helping things in that regard.

Here is an article about the aid from the AP. https://www.apnews.com/94fdeaddc6b34c02b97278674b87541e

There is an email about Trump cancelling a meeting with Ukraine until they wanted to 'play ball'. In fact, the President cancelled the Vice-President's trip to the Ukraine for the new Ukrainian President's inauguration, sending Rick Perry instead.

Then the meeting happened and the President asked Ukraine numerous times to get dirt on Biden's son in the Ukraine. In addition he wanted to find out information about who gave up Manafort as I understand it. (this is per the report that was released)

I think this case is very strong against the President and why Pelosi does not want to get involved with the Mueller report as it does not directly implicate the President beyond trying to get witnesses to change their testimonies.

burnbarn said:

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Honestly I am not sure where it is. I do recall back when this was going on, that the administration had postponed sending the $400M in military aid. I thought at the time, that this was unusual as congress had approved the package and I knew the Ukrainians are working to get the Russians and corrupt Russian influences out of the country and by delaying this aid, that was not helping things in that regard.

Here is an article about the aid from the AP. https://www.apnews.com/94fdeaddc6b34c02b97278674b87541e

There is an email about Trump cancelling a meeting with Ukraine until they wanted to 'play ball'. In fact, the President cancelled the Vice-President's trip to the Ukraine for the new Ukrainian President's inauguration, sending Rick Perry instead.

Then the meeting happened and the President asked Ukraine numerous times to get dirt on Biden's son in the Ukraine. In addition he wanted to find out information about who gave up Manafort as I understand it. (this is per the report that was released)

I think this case is very strong against the President and why Pelosi does not want to get involved with the Mueller report as it does not directly implicate the President beyond trying to get witnesses to change their testimonies.

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Thanks for answering my question. So nowhere in the transcript that was released was that said. So no "you do this for me and I give you money for it or I want give you money for it." So basically, the transcript we have AT THIS TIME, says nothing of that. Therefore, I stand behind my opinion. He done nothing to be impeached. Now, if a new transcript were to come out showing and stating this, then that changes the whole ballgame for me. Until then, IMO, we have a situation that does not fit the narrative that some on the left want it to fit. Just as we had several under previous administrations that didn't fit what the right wanted it to fit.

We don't have a word for word transcript because the record of the conversation was moved to a secret server.

We have a summary from the WH where they very clearly show President Trump asking a foreign country to investigate a political rival. That is clear from the sanitized version provided by the WH, i.e., the best possible representation of it for President Trump.

statefan91 said:

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We don't have a word for word transcript because the record of the conversation was moved to a secret server.

We have a summary from the WH where they very clearly show President Trump asking a foreign country to investigate a political rival. That is clear from the sanitized version provided by the WH, i.e., the best possible representation of it for President Trump.

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Ok but as you said, there isn't as of YET anything that shows you do this, you get that, much unlike Biden who did say you do this or you don't get that. Until that happens, he ain't done anything to be impeached.

What it all amounts to is this. The left wants trump gone, period, point blank, end of discussion. By doing this, they are all but handing him the election in 2020, especially with a candidate like Warren getting the nomination. Then, for the next 4 years, the left will continue to ***** and moan and try to find reasons to make him leave while the right defends him, just as it always works for both sides. If the goal was to have trump not be re-elected, the Dems are about to fail and fail miserably.

...

He's still asking a foreign country, which he just paused military aid to, to investigate a political rival. A foreign country with a new president that is trying to do whatever he can to get into the good graces of the President of the US that just paused $400MM of foreign aid so they can defend themselves against Russia.

Are you saying you don't understand why that is problematic and could be considered an impeachable offense? Is there anything besides Trump saying "I would like to bribe you with that $400MM of military aid if you will investigate my political rival" in the transcript that would be alarming?

statefan91 said:

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...

He's still asking a foreign country, which he just paused military aid to, to investigate a political rival. A foreign country with a new president that is trying to do whatever he can to get into the good graces of the President of the US that just paused $400MM of foreign aid so they can defend themselves against Russia.

Are you saying you don't understand why that is problematic and could be considered an impeachable offense? Is there anything besides Trump saying "I would like to bribe you with that $400MM of military aid if you will investigate my political rival" in the transcript that would be alarming?

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There could be 100 reasons for that aid to have been paused. The fact is, you can't stand trump. He could say his finger hurts and you would scream impeach him. On the other hand, I look at it both ways. He, as of what has been shown so far, has not said anything about not giving money unless this or that happens. Again, you view this from the far left, can't stand trump, view. I see it from a independent, not a trump fan, not far left, etc, view that as of now, doesn't see anything that involves impeachment. Maybe it's because this has been yelled about since the day he was elected because people on the far left didn't get what they wanted. The fact of the matter remains the same. As of yet, the transcript that the DEMS are saying is the reason for this(before it was the Mueller probe) isn't supported by facts that are impeachable. When Trump is caught saying "if you don't fire so and so then you won't get a billion dollars for so and so" like Biden, then this is a non issue. If, as the Dems state, what Biden said is a non issue, how in the wide world of all things stupid politics is the transcript of trump and the Ukraine president?

Glasswolf said:

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Point is that aid was approved by Congress. Trump can't deny that aid without explaining to Congress why he withheld it.

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Ok let's say you are correct. Why is it what Biden did was and still is ok to the left and what trump didn't do isn't? Seriously, why the double standard? If what trump is assumed of doing is so bad, then why isn't what Biden ADMITTED to doing not?

Glasswolf said:

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RWW26 do you know why Nixon was impeached?

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Are you going to address the question that has been ask multiple times now? If it's ok for Biden why isn't it ok for trump? For me, it's wrong for either to do it, not because ones left or right. Also, Warren will get the nomination. I will be around the beginning of the summer. If I'm wrong, steak of your choice and a case of Old Tuffy for ya. I'll even make the drive to bring it to you and cook the steak for ya brother!!! :-)

Glasswolf said:

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I'm going by what the foreign minister of Ukraine has publicly stated. That joe and hunter Biden are guilty of no corruption involving Ukraine

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And the president of Ukraine said he didn't feel pushed or pressured by Trump. Regardless, when Warren is nominated, you owe me a steak! Lol

Glasswolf said:

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He doesn't have to feel pressured. The fact is trump held congressional approved aid over his head in turn for a favor.
Even Lindsey graham stated in 1999 that no crime had to be committed to cleanse the office and restore honor to the office

Now why was Nixon impeached?

And I've listened enough impeachable offenses just involving violations of the emoluments clause for anyone

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And Biden did the same with proof of it. No proof of Trump's. There is an assumption of Trump's but ko proof of it as with Biden

Not to be a wet blanket but Nixon was never impeached. We've only impeached 2 presidents. Johnson and Clinton, both of whom were acquitted.


Carry on.

ETA: He probably would've been impeached had he not resigned. What a puss.

The anchor on Face the Nation this morning segued with "we just heard Lindsey Graham give 'A FULL THROATED' defense of the president..."

On Biden..
The WORST thing Biden MAY have done was to help enrich his son and even that is a stretch here. (BTW, there is no evidence of this and it has even been refuted by the prosecutor that was fired in the Ukraine) I think enlisting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political rival back home is not even close to equivalent. There is no double standard here.

It seems no one has issue with the current President's children being enriched by their positions.

burnbarn said:

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On Biden..
The WORST thing Biden MAY have done was to help enrich his son and even that is a stretch here. (BTW, there is no evidence of this and it has even been refuted by the prosecutor that was fired in the Ukraine) I think enlisting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political rival back home is not even close to equivalent. There is no double standard here.

It seems no one has issue with the current President's children being enriched by their positions.

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So we ignore the fact the Biden is on tape telling the Ukranian government that if the prosecutor isn't fired then the US will withhold US aide?

I could be wrong but that sounds a while lot worse than just helping enrich his son.

Let's assume he did ask Ukraine to fire the prosecutor.... he did not enlist a foreign power to meddle into US elections and dig up dirt on his rivals. It's not even close to the same.. repeat it all you want but it is not the same.
Further, even if Biden did something wrong it does not excuse this President from being wrong.

At the end of the day, this is bad for the President but likely also bad for Biden.

burnbarn said:

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Let's assume he did ask Ukraine to fire the prosecutor.... he did not enlist a foreign power to meddle into US elections and dig up dirt on his rivals. It's not even close to the same.. repeat it all you want but it is not the same.
Further, even if Biden did something wrong it does not excuse this President from being wrong.

At the end of the day, this is bad for the President but likely also bad for Biden.

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But Trump didn't ask Ukraine to interfere in the election. He didn't ask Ukraine to so on some hunting expedition to manufacture or find evidence against a candidate. He asked Ukraine to work with his attorney general to investigate corruption (that was admitted to on tape). That's it. He didn't threaten to withhold aide or anything like that if he didn't to get his way.

The only way that what has happened can be viewed as interference is if you are saying that if any political candidate that is investigated for anything it should be considered as interfering in an election. If that is the standard since Trump is running for president again then every democrat who wants to investigate him for anything is interfering in next years presidential election and should be removed from office. You sure that's where you want to go there?

okay then.. I'll let you have the last word... He didnt ask them to dig up dirt on his opponent and then to work with the AG and his personal attorney although he has already admitted that as has Giuliani.
It's just a big nothing burger.. If I only had known.

Glasswolf said:

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Hey look, now Trump has asked Australia to help discredit the Muellar Investigation. The man cannot get out of his way.

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Considering he stated months ago that he hopes AG Barr looks into multiple countries about the Mueller investigation and noone said anything about it then, I'm sure this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I will give you an A for effort brother but he still hasn't committed a by the book impeachment act. He may have committed what some who can't stand him consider one, but he hasn't by the book done it yet. I'm sure by the end of the week, someone will come out with yet another "bombshell" that will amount to nothing yet again. Best thing the left can do is shut the hell up, find an actual candidate who can win an election and do that. You're basically assuring trump a second term with the tempertantram bull*****